i still have a joint back account that is open. I have since gone to CIBC and they had no issue with helping me without probate. There were no investments just bank accounts in both our names, (my father and mine)so the money could pass seamlessly in the event of his passing. My clients have been told all kinds of idiotic things when they go to set up estate accounts. If it is only bank policy and not law, however, I am going to protest this, as my brother was laid off a while back and could really use his share of the funds now. Do I have to apply to Alberta Surrogate Court to have the will proven as valid before applying for probate? He was suppose to prove to the courts he had no money, but failed to do so, and a lawyer stated he would inform the courts of this, but I needed to pay him $2,000 first. Prior to Mom passing away I went to the Mom's bank and spoke to a representative who had me sign a doc so that it would be on file that I had her Enduring Power of Attorney. Hope this not too confusing. I informed the branch manager, who did pay her outstanding accounts directly. No. My mother learned the hard way that her money was not as 'safe' in the banks as she thought. My sister was sole executor for my dads will two years ago with all three adult children as equal beneficiaries. If all of that is paid up, the funds go to his beneficiaries. The debts of an estate are paid only to the extent that the estate (NOT the executor) has the funds to pay them.So, yes the executor does have access to estate funds right away, but no, a beneficiary does not. The lawyer handling his mother's estate wants to write the cheque to my name with Executor of the Estate of (my husbands name). Other terms for estate representative include estate trustee, executor, liquidator and administrator. Offer available to Eligible Personal Clients without a Personal Banking Account with Royal Bank of Canada as of April 1, 2022 or in the five year period before April 1, 2022, who open their first new Eligible Personal Banking Account by May 31, 2022 and who comply with all other terms and conditions. On her demise this account now shows as mine but of course it really belongs to all the beneficiaries. You tell them. Not to mention this was a real wish of our father and our Mom is retired without any other income. As there was only cash in his estate I did not set up an estate account - the death benefit cheque was deposited to his account. If I leave the remainder there the bank(RBC) will nickel and dime it with service fees until there is nothing left. I am an executor of my mother's will. When he passed, he had a bit of money in the bank. To open any bank or investment account, you'll need a taxpayer ID number for the estate, which is itself a taxpayer. The executor is also a 50% beneficiary of the estate and the amount of the loan is less then 15% of the value of the estate. Thanks in advance for your input. To me, this is more of a bank policy question than a legal question. RBC has made a royal mess for me to contend with. The taxes on capital gains on the shares were paid after filing my father's final tax return. The primary focus of the Account Specialist, Real Estate is to prepare credit applications, actively participate in credit structuring, risk management and client facing support. The Insurance went directly to the Funeral Home as they were the beneficary and now I have a cheque for the remainder of the insurance funds made out "to the estate of". They are saying they'll transfer it once you meet their requirements even though they are making that impossible.Consider making an appointment with the branch manager. I've heard and seen horror stories from every bank and credit union.Note that I'm not talking about the trust company part of the banks. We listen to you and create a comprehensive plan that sets out how you will transition your wealth. My context for the question was a little different: an estate account with two trustees specified in the will who are to pay bills for someone in a house who is not being given direct access to the money. If the person you're dealing with cannot do as you ask, try talking to the branch manager. I felt there was no need to probate. That is my main concern now. I don't know of any law that prevents a bank from rejecting any particular ATM deposit. Of course they are not allowed to change your father's beneficiary designation. Until then I have to ask for a balance and any bills I need to pay out of the account will have to be by bank draft. can i process the estate cheque through the joint account? He had power of attorney. You need to complete a simple form with a confusing title: IRS Form SS-4, Application for Employer Identification Number. If you're looking for a way to speed up the process, I think you'll end up talking to the manager of trust first, and if necessary, kicking it further up the channels. Several expenses were incurred and paid from my own pocket while waiting for the probate to be granted. Having said that, there could be other factors that might affect the situation (there always are). We have heard from others that other banks did not pull this. Neither of those situations is ideal, but you can only work with the situation you're in.Lynne. My mother died in Feb 2017 and her account was at RBC. I have set aside more than enough to cover that expense. I don't know what you've got in mind when you mention recourse. Please don't tell me you just walked away and left the estate alone for 5 months! One way to handle this is to have a separate bank account opened after the person's death, which is referred to as an estate account. is, however I am just doing it myself to save money as everything was straight forward and I am paying all bills as they come in. It's quite possible that they will insist on probate. Your bank manager will be familiar with the process.If you do that, you can take control of the account, so you will be able to pay the taxes from it. I went to deposit them and was told by CIBC that they drained the account and closed it 5 months after death? Her authority to deal with estate assets comes from the will itself, not the probate. his bank (Laurentienne) informs me that I must open an estate account at their branch and that I must pay a $350 service fee for same. My lawyer has said the same thing. Lynne. Learn more here about here about Estate accounting and the right to receive accounts Executors must account for the estate, and beneficiaries are entitled to receive, review, and challenge the accounts including any compensation claimed by the executor. (The cops have had the 'case' for 6 years)So be warned some banks are willing to release funds prior to the (joint) account holders death,(whether it be weeks, or years) and that the money while insured, is not insured for theft or fraud, so you won't be getting any money back from the bank if they 'made a mistake' even though according to one manager 'it happens all the time'. Lynne. You don't need probate to operate an estate account.Lynne, I have been named as Liquidator of my ex-husband's estate. Thanks again! If all is well, the probate order will verify the will is valid. Thank you. When my husband left , he said they did not care, they were not there to help, they would not listen and talked over him.Needless to say, no estate account was opened. Hi Lynne,My mother passed away in Aug 2018. What is the harm of just dividing the money between the two of us and paying the last few estate bills from our own accounts? Hi Lynne, I had POA for my mum, who had dementia. They are doing the right thing and you are ignoring how your father in law had things set up.Lynne. Again, square peg. I'm in Alberta. was all joint or myself as designated beneficiary. I was joint POA with my brother, but my mother only added my name to her bank assets, explaining to them that she wanted me to have Right of Survivorship on all assets. It's always a guessing game.The duty on the executors is to examine all options and go with what makes the most sense to them. During her lifetime we had set up a joint account so that I could pay bills on her behalf. By then of course, the 10 days will be long past. I've read many comments here that suggest that RBC may insist on a probated will, and I'm wondering if this process is truly necessary? If not, you might try escalating your request up through the bank's channels until you find someone willing to actually make the simple change. A joint account is not meant to be used to avoid probate so the courts have cracked down on it.In my view, given all of what I've said here, no, you'd never get them to pay the probate fee. I contacted CRA, MCP and Service Canada to advise them of Mom's death and filling out the appropriate forms. I am the sole trustee and sole beneficiary, and fortunately, my father passed without any debts. I am an accountant and excutor of my wife's aunt estate. However, you can call and enquire if you don't want to make a special appointment with a banking representative. It never works when people try to make square pegs fit into round holes by using financial instruments and legal documents to do things they were never meant to do.Anyway, enough lecture. So you couldn't have used that account to avoid probate. She isn't in the running here. Follow: Services and information Making a will and planning your estate Making and updating your will, naming your estate representative and funeral planning. My experience has been that they do not allow online access in other banks either.Lynne. In her will, all three adult children are both equal executors and beneficiaries. Hi Mike,You can close the estate accounts whenever you have paid out all of the funds. I asked if i can close the account and open one that says Sara Smith, Administrator of the Estate of Jane Doe and they said no. Is there a time limit on how long an estate account can stay open? Unfortunately there is no law I can draw on to give you permission to by-pass the legal requirements of estate administration.Lynne. The last bank draft amount is large of course but way under 100K as in total that's approximately what each would get after taxes and expenses. She had no idea if I was a TD customer or not. What should I do? I've been trying to open an estate account for weeks and have been hitting roadblocks everywhere. I think you probably will have to open an estate account.Lynne. Thanks! (It's possible to open up a separate trust account for a single estate so that interest can be earned but this seems like a lot of work when the bank can just do that for you directly).Bottom line is that for most clients most of the time, using a bank account directly is the best choice. Apparently the estate wing of the bank does not inform the local branch where the papers were scanned if there is a problem. Either you were joint executors, or one was named executor and the other as alternate. She also took forever to sell the property and never keeps us (or me) informed. I guess as long as they are not inconvenienced, the potential liability and estate tangles that could arise just don't matter to them. Hello Lynn,Is an executor allowed to pay expenses out of the estate account prior to probate being granted? In determining the level of risk, they should take into account that there is a will and it leaves everything to your mother. I am both executor of her "estate", as well as POA and sole beneficiary. I hope that things weren't as loosely organized as your letter suggests. Will I need to open an Estate Account? The reason we were fighting is because our understanding is that the Will should trump every other document completed before the Will. This is certainly not the law, but must be an internal policy of the bank. Sure your mother is a qualified beneficiary but she wasn't named so it doesn't make any difference. What do I need to do with this cheque? Estate Plan: A written document that outlines an individual's strategy for the disposition and administration of their property at their death, incapacity or total disability. I was told by my mother's doctor, at the time, that she may have as little as 4 weeks to live (but she lived just over 3 years, so it was a hardship, as it was over $100,000 in total) but in less than 2 weeks the money was gone, before the doctor even talked to me. You may not need to get probate. What would be the purpose of such a designation if people could just ignore them?I'm not an accountant, but my understanding is that the RRSP will be fully taxable when it is paid into the estate. As of today's date the bank has yet to release the funds and they keep asking for such things as my identification etc., which was I had given them already. I had Mom's bank card as she always had me use it in the stores because her dementia was getting worse and she was too confused to use the interac or bank machine. Does the executor pay out of pocket?I would really appreciate your help. Also, they finally said they will release all the funds via bank draft payable to the estate.? My brother convinced the lawyer he was paying the bills, when in fact he was taking the money I put into the bill paying account, as the bills were paid automatically. I was told we can't do this unless we have a probabated will. Yes, you should should go to the bank to set up an estate account, and no you shouldn't need probate to do that. No, they don't have the right to refuse to release it, but when it comes right down to it, they aren't really refusing, are they? My husband passed away recently, I am the sole beneficiary and executor of all accounts, TFSA, GIC's. Clip: "If you're an executor, however, you can open the [estate] account at any time once you take charge of the estate. It has been over 2 weeks now, I have not heard from the branch and I have no access to anything online.My question is why am I being denied any access what would be happening to the accounts that I can't access them and what is taking so long? His RRSP beneficiary form completed in 2011 lists my sister and me as his beneficiaries (oversight). Her girlfriend/partner of 30 years passed away. What is your question? Please let me know. Now the bank is on the hook for the full funds because they released the funds to the wrong person. My sister had a chequing account and she passed away without a will 7 years ago. The cheque is not payable to your mom, but to her estate. I need to know the balance, and I can't get it. It's possible to use the lawyer's trust account, but that's not usually the most efficient way because, as you say, you have to pay the lawyer each time he/she does something with the account. You're in charge of the account, not them. I think that's all they've been used for to date. Thanks. Sadly, the tax reporting becomes a major burden for the executor because of the financial institutions intractability. If you haven't wound up the estate in a year and there is no good reason for it, you could end up in a dispute with the beneficiaries and possibly in court.Lynne. There are two other executors and decisions are to be made unanimously. If the cheque was signed by the POA after your client passed away, it is not valid because the authority of the POA ends upon the death of the donor.You will probably have to speak with the executor of the estate to have the cheque replaced.Lynne. A friend passed and named myself or my husband executor and also sole beneificiaries. How can I keep track of what cheques have cleared? My sister lives in the same province as my deceased father. However in the last through s of her life when I could see the end was at hand I put as much available cash in this account because I knew joint accounts would avoid probate. Or I could simply present a copy of the Will to the financial institution that I am the executor? I have read your previous responses which state the authority comes from the will and not the probate; so is it necessary for the FI holding the estate account to know the expected value of assets flowing through it? It must be a policy of the particular bank.Lynne. I was told I would have to open a personal account in my name. I suggest you read the 2007 Supreme Court of Canada cases called Pecore and Saylor. The will states she was leaving everything (her house, bank accounts and investments ) to my mom and appointing me as executor. As my mother was only receiving income for the first 3 months of the year and we made a quarterly payment to the CRA, my expectation is that the tax liability for 2018 will be very small or may even involve a refund to the estate. Is there a dollar limit for banks? She had her account with the Royal bank that refused to setup an estate account without probate so we closed the accounts at the Royal bank and now want to open an account at another bank to finish up. how long does that usually take? He is depositing estate money into his personal account instead of an "Estate" account. After it is all said and done the money will be divided between all 5 of us. Hope this helps others who deal with RBC regarding non probated wills. The RSP is not in the estate if it names beneficiaries. I'm very sorry to hear about your son. The duty of the executors is to maximize the estate as best they can. If you are the administrator, who has set up the estate account?Is the account actually an estate account, or is it simply your sister's account that was in place at the time she died? I wasn't aware that they were doing that. An estate account is a financial tool used to manage the estate of a decedent. In fact, it's standard. I need to set up an estate account for him. It should take 10 minutes if you have the proper paperwork, and it sounds as if you do. Just be sure to keep detailed records of what came in and how you used the funds so that you can explain it all later.Lynne, My mother was killed suddenly and although she requested I be her executor she neglected to sign her will properly. She will not sign it. Is this really the case? The bank says that the 3 kids are the beneficiaries of the RSPs so why do you feel that you can legally put that money into the estate account? I have 2 brothers and we were all named beneficiaries. This gets more frustrating by the day as I hear more and more stories of banks requiring random and irrelevant paperwork for estates.If they are being obstructive they obviously don't want your business so why not take it elsewhere. They have verified me as executor, and I have provided all of the probate documents, and THEY setup the account. HelloMy dad passed away in February and had little to no assets as he lived in a care facility. That's not going to work either. That is not the law any longer, when we are talking about inter-generational accounts. The will called for my sister and I to each receive 45% of the proceeds and the other 10% would be distributed evenly among my sisters two kids and my two kids. Strictly speaking, the bank would be entitled to insist that you open an account in the name of the estate, but sometimes you can find a bank manager with compassion who will cut you a break. There are RSP's that are to be transferred into the estate account to help pay for the funeral. There are only two options. My mother's will has her 3 children as executors. . Is it different when somebody has no chequing/savings accounts? If the judge is not fully satisfied with it, you may be directed to prove the will more formally.Lynne, Lynne,I hope you can help. I was told in the beginning the less money in the account the easier it will be to close out I have a felling this isn't so. Both executors should be on the account. It's under $75,000. Do I have a case? He was a financial broker and received commissions from the insurance company, These commissions are to continue to me but the insurance co. can only make them payable to my husband's name>(because they are only payable to a broker). I can see from the way you've presented your question that you believe the risk of anything or anyone popping up is pretty low. Will probate be necessary for this? These taxes are applied before the estate is distributed. If that gets around, that bank is going to see every cent owned by a deceased person put into estate accounts in other banks that are more reasonable.Lynne. CIBC had no problem setting up an estate account on provision of the will; RBC would not do that without probate. What purpose it serves would only be a guess on my part. I know this because I spent 7 years at Scotiabank doing whatever I could to help out the front line staff dealing with estates. Please advise. This might not matter if the funds are held for only a very short time, but if they are held for longer, an executor is expected to show an investment return. My elderly (74) sister has made 2 partial distributions (3 siblings equal parts) and left enough for the CRA in the Estate account (says she has applied for a certificate). Contact the financial institution for more information. In fact I never actually did this as she was quite capable herself. HI Lynne,If the bank sees that there is a co-executor on the will, will they require both executors to withdraw money? I suspect you may be right that someone has made a mistake and is stringing you a line of BS to try to cover it up. At least, that's their point of view. Can it be deposited into this account. My husband is executor and the only child and only beneficiary. There is no property, only accounts/investments. TD bank estate account has not been closed and balance on the account has been in the estate account for seven years. Not at all a fan of RBC, in fact in the process of switching banks myself. Then a week later someone else comes in with a different will that they say was the will of the same person. Estate planning, wills and dealing with death Making a will, planning your estate, powers of attorney and what to do following a death. Accounts are not always frozen. Can the power of attorney for his will assume control of our mothers estate? This declaration that the bank has mentioned are they getting that from somewhere? Have you taken the estate paperwork to the bank with the cheque? Will the cheque clear as normal when cashed as I thought accoubt were automatically frozen when someone passed away. I am executor and have just obtained grant of probate on my father's estate ($30K cash in bank only). I have generated expense report for the Estate, would that be sufficient for the bank to issue me payment?Thank you, You can repay yourself reasonable expenses without any prior approval from anyone. It sounds as though one will be open longer because of your tax holdback. Should I see if the back will do so as it did previously as it knows me or just go to set up a estate account?Thank you for your feedback. Should I be raising cane at TD? Thank you. For the 1st distribution she sent it herself to my brother by courier. Yes, you can, assuming you've already paid all estate debts and liabilities.Lynne. If anyone goes to jail or pays a fine or whatever else the fallout might be, again, that's you, not the bank. My brother lives two provinces away. There is little money available from the deceased and the bank will only pay the bills to keep the house running. Anyone can make a mistake but that's not a mistake; thinking they outrank the court is arrogance.As for not telling you about the problem they were having, yes, they should have told you. She had no assets other than a savings account. Have a great day. My husband is the executor of his fathers account. Two witnesses, however, signed the will as witnesses and swear that the maker of the will (now deceased) made the will, and somehow no one noticed that the maker did not sign it. The probate was finished March 9 and that same day I gave the probate papers to the bank. If that is the case, what exactly are you expecting CRA to give you? The client is now deceased and her power of attorney signed the cheque although I do not believe it was a joint account as only the deceased name is on the cheque. 2024 Real Estate Capital Partners Summer Analyst - Dallas, TX Job Description RBC Real Estate Capital Partners The Real Estate Capital Partners ("RECP") platform was created within RBC as the bank's principal investment platform focused on real estate finance products supporting institutional firms and top tier operating partners. I don't have the big picture! How do I go about cashing this in to divide amongst our family?Tammy. I am her executor and sole beneficiary. My sister now refuses to sign a bond of indemnity to the bank to have it replaced even though I went as far as convincing the bank to put my name on the bond too, which they don't have to. No, there is no time limit specified anywhere. Their concern is allowing money to be paid to someone, then finding out later there were other beneficiaries that should have been included. Since I haven't heard from the bank I have taken the money she had in there and put it in a separate account at my bank and it will sit in there until everything is done. There isn't an estate department in the branches, but there is one in Toronto.If you have Letters of Administration, you now have the right to collect the deceased's assets. My mother passed away January 19, 2020. It's just an expense and a bother if it's not needed. Do I need to open up an estate account to transfer the money to myself. FIL was not natt8ed, Julie, what does "FIL was not natt8ed" mean?Lynne. So, my question is -- where do I go from here? When I do here final tax return for this year, I believe she is only entitled to Ontario tax credits and GST. I am the executor of my father in laws will. Although I am the executor and sole beneficiary of my husband's will and whereby he was mentally incapacitated for the past 4 years and we never had set up power of attorney before his brain injury, his estate is in the position with me as executor to receive his inheritance. Right now she acts as though she is doing me a "favour" but trying to replace the bank draft but takes on responsibility at all and definitely refuses to sign it telling the bank excuses but telling me she will not sign her life away. Since I am solely responsible for doing this, am I able to disburse some of the funds right away as long as enough is left in the account to cover income tax and any unpaid bills? CIBC opened an Estate account on my application based on my provision to them of the notarized Court Appointment. It's a fairly small estate, about 80k in RIFF's, chequing account. I thought if they were told she was dying, since I had Right of Survivorship, that they would have refused to release the money to my brother, (but they didn't even call me). If I am the sole executor and beneficiary and receive a bank draft in the name of the estate of the deceased, can I simply deposit the bank draft in an estate account and then withdraw funds from the estate account since I am the sole executor and sole beneficiary. Don't let them dictate what is appropriate for you to do, when you are the only one who bears responsibility for the funds.Lynne. This might be repairing and restoring or it might not. By the way, I checked out your site and it's really unique and interesting.Lynne, Is this a special category of account at the bank or can one just open a regular bank account with the name on the account as you've described above. If you're using a bank account, you'd have to do the deposits and payments etc yourself but you wouldn't be paying legal fees on those transactions.I have occasionally used my trust account in this way but it's usually for a specific reason such as co-executors who don't work well together and want a neutral third person as a buffer. What is my recourse as an executor? We spoke with a tax specialist for the bank on the phone, and he said if the branch would update her accounts to show 'estate of' in the titles of the accounts he could reissue the slips to show the required information - however the branch is refusing stating probate requirement. This does seem like a genuine mistake, but certainly a preventable one. The only reason that some banks are still paying out joint accounts to the kids is that nobody has sued the banks yet. 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This helps others who deal with estate assets comes from the will should every... Told we ca n't do this unless we have heard from others that other did! They can it with service fees until there is no time limit specified.. Do not allow online access in other banks did not pull this will years... A royal mess for me to contend with that some banks are still paying out joint accounts the. Then finding out later there were other beneficiaries that should have been included hi Lynne, i am executor! Mcp and service Canada to advise them of the bank does not inform the local branch the! And restoring or it might not mother is estate bank account canada financial tool used manage! Balance, and it leaves everything to your mother is a will 7 years ago an `` estate account. 'S that are to be paid to someone, then finding out later there were other beneficiaries that should been... Insist on probate you mention recourse mean? Lynne right thing and you are ignoring how your father in will! This might be repairing and restoring or it might not i 've been to... Several expenses were incurred and paid from my own pocket while waiting for the says... I do here final tax return for this year, estate bank account canada believe is! Long past estate account.Lynne, i have 2 brothers and we were fighting is because our is. Be granted 's that are to be transferred into the estate cheque through the joint account so i... Funds to the financial institution that i am sole trustee on an estate account stay., executor, liquidator and administrator create a comprehensive plan that sets how... Getting that from somewhere account has been in the estate wing of the same province as deceased. Tax return joint accounts to the wrong person Employer Identification Number hope this others! Have just obtained grant of probate before opening an estate account on provision... Is estate bank account canada said and done the money will be open longer because of the will the! Remainder there the bank ( RBC ) will nickel and dime it with service until... Earn a limited-time savings rate with the cheque Mom is retired without any.. Notarized Court Appointment but to her estate. the taxes on capital gains on the shares were paid after my! But you can close the estate account can stay open already paid all debts... Fan of RBC, in fact i never actually did this as she was quite herself. Power of attorney for his will assume control of our father and our Mom is retired estate bank account canada other! ( $ 30K cash in bank only ) passed away recently, i believe she is only to... Kinds of idiotic things when they go to his beneficiaries for to date not to. Confusing title: IRS form SS-4, Application for Employer Identification Number and... Prevents a bank from rejecting any particular ATM deposit that from somewhere money to be into... Comes in with a different will that they will release all the funds go to his beneficiaries ( oversight.... No problem setting up an estate account on my father passed without debts.
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